Ministry or Money Machine? Lifewise’s $39M Question Part 2

Doug Berger: 00:05
I conclude my conversation with Keith Comer from Respect Public Schools that has been tracking the indoctrination machine known as Lifewise Academy for several years now. In this episode, we talk about the illegal use of taxpayer money and other violations of previous Supreme Court decisions. Then we talk about the lack of vetting and oversight of a program that removed children from school in the middle of the day.

Voice Over: 00:35
This is Secular Left with Doug Berger, an independent, religion-free, progressive viewpoint on topics of the day.

Doug Berger: 01:13
For example, when we looked at school districts being reimbursed for school lunches, uh being sent with LifeWise students, and the time and resources spent by the staff to make sure that the children actually go to LifeWise and that they all come back.

Keith Comer: 01:38
Well, I mean, you have the the biggest ones, you know, in Elmwood school district, uh which is in like Wood, Wood County, Ohio. Um they have LifeWise in a school building on school property. Um so their old school is right next to a brand new school that that they built, or it’s about 10 years old. Um and so the kids just walk across the parking lot and and attend class in a building on school property. So not only is that violating state law, federal case law, um, you know, they had the I the IT staff set up a phone for them, set up the Wi-Fi, got their printers online, got the TV online. Um this, you know, they asked if they had any extra furniture, so the school brought some over. Um, I mean, it was just one thing after another after another. Um, there are instances where LifeWise has gone into um uh a building in a public park. Um, specifically, this one was for a pool, a public pool. They didn’t need the office when the pool is closed, when school’s open. So Lifewise uses it when the pool’s closed, and they were not paying for it. They were just just using it. They even installed a different door for them because LifeWise wanted a different door on the building. So they installed a door for them. Um in uh Newton, Ohio, uh they or Newton School School District, they used the um the school’s field house to have classes in. Uh there was some sort of issue with the location that LifeWise was using. The fire department said that they couldn’t use it. Um so the school just they the school did an official, they waived um the policy that the school had that said that LifeWise couldn’t be on school property. They waived that and said that they could do it in the field house um on school school property. Uh, you know, I mean, all of this is using taxpayer funds, taxpayer resources, school employees, you know, to help this program operate. Um, there are villages that have donated public land, city-owned property, um, to put put buildings on. That’s happened, I think, three times. Um, you know.

Doug Berger: 04:08
What was that? Uh there was some place in Indiana that they were gonna build on a city property and somebody caught wind of it.

Keith Comer: 04:15
And yeah, uh in what uh Woodburn in Indiana, it’s it’s just like uh outside of Fort Wayne. Um, they were gonna build a sort of like a mobile uh classroom structure. They were gonna put it on the property that the city’s water tower is on. Uh so they have the chain link fence around the water tower so no one gets to it. They were gonna cut the fence down and move it and put the classroom right next to the school. And I caught wind of it and I sent them some messages and said, Hey, I don’t know if you know this, but you’re not allowed to use any public resources to support this program. Um, there was no lease agreement, there was no signed thing that was ever talked about at a um council meeting. Um I couldn’t find any any record of it, but what I did find is them talking about it. And when I asked for uh the contracts for it, lo and behold, they said that they were never signed. Um so not only were they letting them build on the property, they had never signed any sort of lease agreement, even though they were written up. I have the lease agreements, just not the signed versions. Um, so I’m still waiting for the public record request to come back on that one to fully understand what happened. But yeah, the school and the city were both gonna let them build on their property and build a walkway over to this new building, and they were just gonna give them the the land for it.

Doug Berger: 05:53
Uh did you ever uh find out if there was a contract with the Elmwood, the their community center that’s the old school?

Keith Comer: 06:01
Yeah, no, there is absolutely a contract.

Doug Berger: 06:04
Are they are they being charged the regular amount?

Keith Comer: 06:09
I I would say they probably are.

Doug Berger: 06:11
Um but the fact that they’re during the school day, though, it’s still illegal.

Keith Comer: 06:17
Yes, yeah, uh, yeah. Uh so there is a letter or a like a legal opinion that the Alliance for Defending Freedom has been has been passing around um school, school ministries Ohio is where I first saw it. Uh and this letter basically says that if the school lets any secular program use a school building during the day for any sort of reason, then they have to let LifeWise or school ministries or any release time program do the same. Uh so there’s lots of states or lots of lots of cities in Ohio that are having release time programs on school property. There’s a there’s 10 that I know of. Um, and they all cite that letter as as the the the reason. And the the one example I was given, and I think it’s it’s in the letter, uh, a school set up a room where parents could come in, get diapers, formula, things like that. And because there was a room where parents could come in and receive materials like that, now they have to let a release time religious program operate on school property during this the school day. Um, and it’s just it’s wild for me to think about all the schools that have a coat closet where you, you know, we would we would donate old coats and hats and gloves. And so they would use that as an example to say that, oh, well, if you’re gonna do this thing that’s not religious and donate coats to people, you have to let us do our religious thing and have Bible class.

Doug Berger: 08:05
Yeah, there are so many court cases that that is wrong. There is starting with Zorach V. Clausen, uh the ever what was the one? The uh uh call them v. Board of Education, they tried the same crap. I mean and and and unfortunately, and you would agree, I’m sure, Keith, that they’re gonna be doing this until somebody sues them. Yes, yeah, you know, and and and then so they’re not gonna stop, they’re not gonna stop if you ask them to. You know, you’re gonna have to actually sue them. And that’s that’s the only way that it’s gonna stop.

Keith Comer: 08:44
Well, it if if you look at Texas, Texas, Oklahoma, I’m not sure about the Indiana law off the top of my head. Um, but the the model law that LifeWise created, you can go to RTRI.net, it’s a website. Um, they tried to hide the fact that they made that, but it is their website. They put their name at the bottom now. Um, but the model, you know, law that they take around to states where they’re where they want to change that state law says that it has to be off school property unless similar programs are offered on school property. Uh, so I mean, they’re already setting the groundwork to be able to do this in the school building on school property. Uh, there’s a school in Ohio, could Canaten, C-O-N-O-T-T-O-N, Canaten Valley. Um, and they do it in the library. This isn’t life-wise, but it’s it’s a you know, um, it’s a school ministries oh Ohio one, but they they do it in the library during the school day. You know, and the the reasoning is if they let anybody else use the school during that school day, then they have to let a religious group use it. And they also they also throw out the the Equal Access Act, which you probably know about, but those are for student-led programs.

Doug Berger: 10:15
You know, and also it’s for uh takes place uh before or after school.

Keith Comer: 10:21
Well, in junior high and high school, it it can be during non-instructional time. So if if like in in high school, you know, if a bunch of kids have a study hall and they want to go have a club or a group, do it. Um but again, that’s not how it works kindergarten through through fifth grade. And also, Zorach V. Claustin said it cannot be on school property. You know, I mean these these programs are funded by churches, their volunteers come from churches. These are, you know, lifewise says that they’re a parachurch ministry, they work alongside the churches. You know, this is a church walking into a school and demanding that these this is how things are going to be run.

Doug Berger: 11:12
Yeah, and the state law also says it has to be off-school property.

Keith Comer: 11:15
Yeah, uh Ohio’s does. Yeah. Some states they’ve gotten that language in there that says it can be on school property if other groups are given the same access.

Doug Berger: 11:27
Yeah, unless you’re a satanic uh temple or Islamic or something like that, then they’ll make sure that you don’t end up allowed to be in school. And and and this will be a hill I will die on. That RTRI programs are nothing like the Boy Scouts, they’re nothing like the Girl Scouts, nothing like any other secular group, non-religious group that they use the school building. They’re nothing like it because it’s specifically about religion, about prophetizing. It’s the same as like handing out Gideon Bibles. They’re not allowed to hand out Gideon Bibles anymore. Yeah. You know, yeah. I had I I we had a guy from Gideon that showed up, I think I was in second grade, and and came around our classroom and was handing out Gideon Bibles. It’s the same thing. To me, it’s the same thing.

Keith Comer: 12:23
Yeah, I mean, yeah, we’ve we’ve seen people passing out Bibles at our our kids’ school, you know. Um, yeah, so I mean it we’ve seen uh groups walking through the hall of our our children’s school uh praying for the students. Um, you know, yeah, I mean those those groups get access to two schools um when kids of all faiths are are there, you know? And yeah, I mean it the the argument that I get a lot, and I’m sure you hear it too, is well, you know, tell you know the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, you know, uh tell them to get organized, get a program, and go after the school. But it it they don’t want to. That’s not their goal, that’s not their focus, you know. Even though, you know, groups that support LifeWise would try to make you believe that everybody else is the ones that are trying to coerce your your children and and get them to to follow them, uh on paper, there doesn’t seem to be any, you know, there’s nothing to to support that claim. Lifewise and school ministries, they’re the ones that are doing this. They’re the ones that are lobbying for the laws, they’re the ones that are forcing the the hand of the school, they’re the ones that that are doing this. So you can say that all the other groups are doing it, but they’re actually not.

Doug Berger: 13:58
And here’s an example the Amish. They have uh in many places, they have their own school system because they don’t they don’t believe in English schools, and they still don’t force kids to be part of the church, they have until they’re 18 to decide.

Keith Comer: 14:15
Yeah, well, and you talk about that, um, you know, the release time concept, um the the Mormon church, um, I mean, they they would set up buildings next to high schools. Um, it’s very common, you know, lifewise does that exact same thing. Um, one of the big differences is they don’t do it until high school. Because they, I mean, if you read the literature and you know how they talk about their program, they want that individual to be able to make the choice themselves, to be able to logically understand what is going on, to be able to, you know, make the choice to believe or or or or follow this. Um, you know, trying to talk to a kindergartner about you know the in-depth concepts of of the Bible or or any faith and asking them, you know, to make a life decision about that at five probably doesn’t make the most sense. Um do it at 15 or 16. Yeah, I mean, you know, you’re you’re starting to be able to have some reasoning and some logic. Um, you know, but to to go after like you talked about earlier, you know, we gotta get them by the time they’re 13, you know, because they don’t want them to make the logical, reason reasonable choice. They don’t they they don’t want them to go, well, you know, I’ve I have friends that are other religions, they’re not bad people. I don’t think they’re gonna, you know, suffer for their entire eternity when they die. That would be that would be strange. Um, you know, to think that of all of your friends that go to a different church. I mean, I I don’t want to live that way. I don’t want to, you know, constantly see somebody and go, well, you didn’t go to the church I went to. And I I guess that’s what’s gonna happen to you for the re the rest of your life after you die. You know, I’m not gonna go around thinking that because it that’s not it’s not my choice, you know. But it really does seem like that’s kind of, you know, they’re they’re going after them when they’re young, and a lot of other groups, you know, like Amish and um, you know, the Church of of Latter-day Saints, and I mean they they want them to be of a of an age where they can actually make a logical choice. And I know that’s not really the the focus of this podcast, but I mean it it No, it it is.

Doug Berger: 16:55
It’s it’s related to it.

Keith Comer: 16:56
Yeah.

Doug Berger: 16:57
You know, that uh you know why people try to do that is uh you know, they’re trying to indoctrinate children as as soon as they can just because they want the butts in the pews. That’s all it is. It’s all about the money and the popularity.

Keith Comer: 17:15
Yeah, yeah, and and you know, I mean, Joel Penton tells the story all the time, you know, he doesn’t like soccer, you would never catch them at a soccer game, except where his kids play soccer. Um, and he says the same thing of how the kids in life wise get their parents to to go to church. You know, the kids drag their parents to to the to the church. Um so if you, you know, I mean I didn’t do it, but he compared a soccer game to your religious beliefs.

Doug Berger: 17:47
But I mean Yeah, and that that was that was one of the testimonies they used in the in the movie was the little girl went to life wise and got her atheist parents to go to church again or something, some weird stuff like that. Yeah.us Um, I did want to ask you before we wrap up, uh, LifeWise claims it’s popular, it’s spreading fast, but that doesn’t seem to be the case, at least now. It seems like they’ve kind of hit a plateau. I believe that you had a post up recently on your website, or or I read it somewhere, that they missed their goals and there’s a scattered news of programs ditching LifeWise and going with other programming. Uh, do you think that that shows how much of a waste of time LifeWise is holding programs during the day? Or is that just uh a mature, a mature uh business model or something like that? Is that just something that we should see?

Keith Comer: 19:15
Yeah, I mean, I I think you were gonna see the the number of I mean it it couldn’t keep going at at the same clip, um, you know, just from a scaling stance. It was gonna have to have to slow down. And the more you get spread out, the less you’re hand holding, the less you are involved with every single little little program. Um, you know, so in their early years, everybody probably knew every program that was starting, and now, you know, the people at corporate, they’re just they’re just pawns that they’re they’re moving out there across the the country. Um so your return on investment from a business standpoint, it’s gonna it’s gonna slow. Every doesn’t matter if you’re selling, you know, tires or you’re selling Bibles, it’s gonna, it’s gonna drop. Um but I think the the number of schools that they’re getting into doesn’t seem to be tapering, but the number of students being enrolled is is ticking down every single time. Um they have a if you go to lifewise.org slash press, there’s a press kit that they put out every single month. Um and it lists the number of schools and the number of students, and it is an exact number. Like they don’t overinflate or or just say like 1200 plus or whatever. It’s it’s an exact number. Um, and if I’ve been tracking it, and it just keeps going lower and lower and lower and lower, you know. So they went from 80 or 90 students on average in each school, and I think now they’re they’re in like upper 60s, you know. So I mean they’ve seen a 30% drop in in enrollment as they start to spread out. And I think a lot of that is is just, you know, they’re being forced into this lunch and recess now. A lot of school districts are passing policies that say library and gym and art and music, like those are classes that we are gonna require students to attend. Like we’re, you know, life-wise may think that those aren’t important or aren’t important enough to attend, but they can leave school for. But the school is writing policies that say we’re gonna require that you be in those those classes. Um, and so now uh they have to do lunch and recess. And like we talked about, enrollment drops during lunch and and recess. Um so I I think that they’re they’re growing, but it it’s definitely it’s definitely changing, you know. Like the they don’t walk into a school and then have 50% of the of the class sign up, you know, and it’s because people are aware of now that you can’t just put flyers in the hallways and you can’t you know send these cards home every single you know day in the in the kids backpack um the school can’t post on their facebook page saying hey sign up for lifewise at the at the the open house um you know so as schools are learning that you know the Supreme Court said that you know the school has to be neutral well this the school advertising it is not being neutral so as the schools become more neutral enrollment is just going to drop you know um so I I don’t want to say that they’re you know having major problems um but I I think it was I think you know through podcasts like this and everybody’s work to get the word out I think schools are going oh yeah we you know somebody asked if we could do that we just said yes you know and I think a lot of it is just people not knowing and I think uh there’s a lot on the other side where they’re like oh well I support this I’m Christian let’s just let’s just do it um and then as far as the programs leaving life wise I I mean I think a lot of people um are becoming aware of how much money goes to corporate um the programs that have left or talking about leaving that is one of the the biggest reasons is all this money that was raised locally is now sitting in Hilliard at the corporate in their their bank account um so if they wanted to do something with it it has to be approved by LifeWise. You know so I I think that there’s there’s probably a lot of struggle there from all these you know local donors that have raised money and they say well just you know go go do this go get the money we gave you that this much money like well we have to ask lifewise for it now you know so I think there’s there’s some pushback from that um and school school school ministries the national brand has a push to go from 50 to 2500 students in just five years which is like that’s a lot I mean that’s a crazy amount of growth um the programs that are leaving lifewise are going to them so my theory is they’re just basically gonna target these programs and say hey look you had to raise a hundred grand to run this program we if you if you do it through us you don’t need to raise fifty or forty you know um lifewise did not like having volunteer teachers they wanted them to be paid they didn’t like having volunteer like local directors of the program they wanted them to be paid they didn’t like having volunteer drivers they wanted them to be paid and I think one of the reasons is is just purely money if everybody’s volunteer then you’re not sending that extra sixty seventy thousand in salary money to LifeWise that they can then skim off for all all of their their fees and and things um and I think a lot of programs were like well you know we we can do the same thing and we can do it you know I’m not saying it doesn’t change the argument of whether release time is right or not and how how how they operate um but I think a lot of people are seeing that LifeWise’s goal is sometimes appears to be purely purely money that there’s there’s no other there’s no other rhyme or reason to it why would you force people to be paid when they would volunteer time you know yeah and um the part where you were mentioning about uh that they’re not allowed to hand out flyers or make announcements and things like that, which is part of that uh Zorash B V Clausen thing uh one of one of the things somebody raised in one of the Facebook groups that I check out uh was talking about how their child was personally sent an invitation to come to LifeWise and they were like freaking out about it.

Doug Berger: 26:24
Why are they sending my kid mail? And here what it is is it’s a public record. The address the name and address are a public record.

Keith Comer: 26:35
Yeah it’s called called uh FERPA FR F-E-R-P-A Federal education records privacy act um and so the roster of every school in the entire country is public record um and the reason it’s addressed to the student is because the parent’s name is not public record so if if any if that ever happens you know and someone can say how did they get it they just went to the school and said give it to me you can ask for it I can ask for it. The only people who can’t ask for it are for-profit commercial companies. Right um and so yeah they you know they’ve sent flyers they’ll get that list and they’ll go door to door and hang little little you know door knocker door hanger things on there um I mean they’ll they’ll do all of those those types of things um and yeah I mean should they have access to the students roster I mean leak legally that they’re they’re allowed to um you can check that box at your school and says that you you don’t want your child on that list that’s what I was gonna say that there’s a process.

Doug Berger: 27:47
Yeah um yeah so you you can you can do that and I I think you have the form or didn’t you work with to create a form that would like preemptively let you opt out of that or maybe as part of my group uh secular humanists of Western Lake Erie we just came up with a form because of that recent court case that they had about LGBT class materials that you can opt your child out of anything religiously based. Right. And you just sign it and turn it into the school and then they have to make sure that uh little Jimmy or little Tina doesn’t uh get exposed to any of that.

Keith Comer: 28:28
Yeah yeah and so just like with that you can tell the school that you don’t want your child to be uh be on that roster and then the only thing the only people that are legally allowed to get it um would be the federal government for the draft.

Doug Berger: 28:41
And probably law enforcement too um but they maybe they’d have to have a subpoena wouldn’t they?

Keith Comer: 28:46
Yeah yeah that yeah and that’s a whole nother let’s not get into the law enforcement ice going into schools and hurting for kids. Well as we uh uh get ready to come to a close on this and again I appreciate your time um what are some of the biggest red flags with lifewise that people should be concerned about I I think yeah the I think the biggest red flag is just that you know the the child safety part is overlooked I think every time these these programs go go in um you know Ohio changed those laws required forced schools Oklahoma and Texas and North Carolina and you know I mean that they’re all passing laws like this and so they’re gonna require the school coordinate they could have put in language that said well you have to have a background check that is up to the same standard as the school and if the person hits anything that’s like a that would bar that individual from you know working or being employed through the school also can’t be through LifeWise or a similar program. I think that that’s the one thing that just you know needs to be talked about needs to be focused on um I mean there’s been so many cases where people have been convicted um and they were working for LifeWise. I’m not saying anything happened while they were at LifeWise um you know but these things need to be taken seriously um you know kids are going off school property sometimes they’re staying on school property even and you know I mean that that leaves another thing you know it’s like well if they’re coming onto the school and they’re not doing the same background check we know we we’re not taking that part of it seriously um so I I think I think that’s a part that you know parents should request that info from the school board they should request that info from LifeWise. If you’re a parent in that district you should know who the people are that are interacting on a day-to-day basis with the students in that district um I would even make the argument to say if you didn’t enroll your child in LifeWise but all their peers are going you still want to make sure that those those children are around safe adults um because actions that happen outside of school come into school um you know so I mean I think just to protect kids you know that has to be a part of of what’s talked about with these and I and I think that gets sort of pushed to to the back burner a lot and it should be one of the very first things you know how are you going to keep these kids safe how are the buses safe how are the background checks done are you doing wrap back do you do you know the second that somebody is arrested or is charged with something you know I mean those those are important things and to act like they’re not in this kind of environment where they have such access to students is just crazy.

Doug Berger: 32:01
Yeah because I mean they are taking kids off school property. I mean they’re leaving the building in most cases and going to another location and people are like oh well they’re good Christians I don’t have to worry about it and it’s like well yeah you do have to worry about it.

Keith Comer: 32:20
Yeah I mean and you know I I I found the driver form that said that you know as long as you’re only driving students for lifewise one time you don’t have to do the full onboarding background check training and and so programs have said like we’re not gonna be able to take the kids and then the next day they’ll say hey we found somebody you know so you can’t do a BCI FBI background check in 24 hours. You usually can’t do it in a week you know yeah and I think school bus drivers generally have to have a physical too you have to have a physical a drug test all these things you know and I mean to get and you have to have onboarding I mean life the lifewise claims everybody um has child safety training mandated reporter training um I’ve taken all that stuff um I mean it those to do all that in 24 hours that’s not gonna happen um you’re not gonna do it well um but it’s like yeah I mean they there’s no reason that we should overlook those just so you can have Bible class on on Tuesday you know um if you didn’t have the people don’t have the class you know um I I don’t know I don’t know why having the class would be more important than child safety um so I think that’s that’s one one of the biggest things then the other is just you know if parents see something you have to to say something you know um I have contact info on my website through Facebook C. They you know their Facebook page is is great to report things um you know FFRF ACLU um Americans United for Separation of Church and State um all these places will take you know what you’ve seen or what you’ve been sent home or what happened to your child and you know we’ll take the time to look into it do public record requests if they you know need to be done and and find out is is something happening that that shouldn’t be um because again I mean kids should go to school and they shouldn’t be proselytized to by adults at at that that school you know and that’s exactly what what LifeWise is doing. I mean it the school is their mission field they are going to use it as a mission field they’re gonna they’re gonna build and construct and change and do everything that they can to get it to work for them. And you know they’re not really con concerned that other kids are other religions in in that in that same same building and I think it’s just I I think it’s I think it’s sad that they can’t that they can’t see that you know that simple logic.

Doug Berger: 35:16
All right well I really appreciate again your time with us today Keith and I I apologize that we went so long we probably could talk another couple hours on this topic. It’s very there’s a lot of nuances a lot of nooks and crannies I mean there’s some things that we didn’t even get into that we could have got into um so we’ll leave that for another time and I do appreciate your website that’s uh respect public schools is the name of it and um I’ll have a link in the show notes about it to to get to it um I know it’s my go-to website I think you do a great job in presenting this information and you always have you know updated information the map is very good to know about and uh again I appreciate your time thank you

Voice Over: 36:08
thank you for listening secular left is hosted written and produced by Doug Berger and he is solely responsible for the content for more information on the topics in this episode and the links used visit secularleft.us if you want to support the show share it with your friends or visit our merch store at secularleft.us slash shop see you next time