Ohio’s Don’t Say Gay Bill Is Now Law And Professor Jerry Coyne FAFO

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Ohio governor signs bill into law forcing teachers and counselors to out LGBTQ+ students

Federal judge vacates Biden Title IX rule, scrapping protections for LGBTQ+ students nationwide

Atheist group faces backlash after publishing, then removing, anti-trans article

Rural Ohioan becomes the state’s first out transgender city councilperson

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[0:05] Ohio’s governor signs a don’t say gay bill into law that also allows a Christian nationalist group to indoctrinate children in public schools.

[0:14] A federal judge claims using preferred pronouns is a First Amendment violation. Professor Jerry Coyne is called on the carpet for using biology to justify discrimination. And in a bright spot, a trans woman is appointed to a city council. I’m Doug Berger. And this is Secular Left.

[0:41] Music.

[0:59] As we start a new year, some things have not changed. Some things have stayed the same. We have an incoming presidential administration that pretty much everybody agrees is going to be very bad for many, many people who can’t afford to have trouble, such as undocumented people and the LGBT community and anybody else who’s wronged the president, the incoming president in his life, he’s going to go after him. It’s not a good time. It’s not a.

[1:42] When we came up to the end of the year, we had the lame duck session in the Ohio legislature. And I think I’ve covered that in previous episodes where we talked about the release time religious instruction bill. It was Senate Bill 293 and then House Bill 445. We were able to get the people that I worked with, the coalition that I worked with, helped stop House Bill 445. Uh, we were lucky that the, they had changed the committee chair in the middle afterward. The bill had been, uh, introduced and had a hearing in between that first hearing and the next hearing, they had a change in committee, uh, chair. And we were lucky enough that it was a, somebody who had been a teacher or served on the school board and didn’t like, didn’t like the, the bill that house bill 445. Which would require school districts to have released time religious instruction policies in the state. Before this bill, it was up to the districts whether or not they were going to have a policy. And the Christian Nationalist Group, LifeWise Academy, saw a payday.

[3:01] And so they got their friends in the state government to lobby for them. Nobody wanted this bill. Uh, teachers are against it. School districts are against it. And we had over 300 people write testimonies in opposition to this bill. And include, and also when it was in the Senate and unfortunately, um, how they normally operate when you have a super majority in the legislature is they didn’t end around, they adopted it anyway. And what they did was they took the guts of that bill when it was in the Senate, Senate Bill 293, and attached it to a House bill that had already passed the Senate, or had already passed the House and was in the Senate. And that was House Bill 8.

[3:57] And unfortunately, House Bill 8 was also not a good bill for especially secular people because it would force teachers and counselors to out LGBTQ students to their parents, whether that was something that they should do or not. And what they did was they introduced, they brought this bill up for a vote in the dead of night. It was like 11 o’clock in the evening, and then they attached the RTRI stuff to it and made it a crappy bill, made it even crappier.

[4:38] And unfortunately, it did the changes. The additions did pass the Senate, and then it went back to the House to concur, and they did concur. Now, the only good thing about it was it wasn’t a slam dunk for the Republicans. It still was enough to pass. They still had the majority, but it was not the usual. Usually they were getting 80 votes, 70 or 80 votes in the House. This time they got 57, I believe.

[5:12] Only 57 people voted for it. It says here that the bill requires that teacher and school staff, including school social workers, counselors, and psychologists notify a student’s parent of any change in the student’s services, including counseling services or monitoring related to the student’s mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being. The legislation specifically calls out trans identity as necessitating parental notification, and previous testimony has affirmed that disclosures of sexual orientation would also trigger parental contact. The bill further bans any mention of sexuality content in grades kindergarten through third grade and mandates that such content be age-appropriate for all other grades. Sexuality content is defined in the bill as written instruction, presentation, image, or description of sexual concepts or gender ideology Nowhere in the bill is gender ideology defined.

[6:19] And then after being amended in the Ohio Senate, the bill now includes a mandate that all schools find a time during the school day when students are able to leave school for religious instruction.

[6:30] And we had three Republicans that voted against it. And I believe they were all associated with education in some way.

[6:39] State Representative Jamie Callender, Representative Gail Manning, that was the uh, chairperson in the house committee that, uh, uh, wouldn’t further wouldn’t move further, uh, house bill 445, which was the RTR bill and representative Andrea white, uh, broke away from their party to vote against the bill and still pass 57 to 31. And the governor DeWine did sign the bill. I believe it was Thursday the 9th, which was almost the last day. And I saw a picture of the signing ceremony and you had goofy smiles from Reverend Gary Click. He is the guy that’s been targeting trans people now for two years. He’s the one that got the gender affirming care ban passed. He’s the one that introduced the RTRI stuff in the House, so he’s standing there smiling. Joel Penton from LifeWise Academy, he was there as the governor was signing it, and he was all smiles. Also all smiles was Senator Michelle Reynolds, who introduced the Senate version, which is kind of interesting because throughout the testimony in the Senate and.

[8:08] Yeah, through the whole testimony in the Senate, she didn’t say a single word about this bill. Didn’t make a comment. Um, usually what happens is when, um, a Senator introduces a bill, they go into the committee, their proponent, and they read an introduction to the bill, to the members of the committee and says, you know, this is why you should do it. She did not do that. Uh, Al Katrona, who was in the house with, uh, uh, Gary Click and introduced 445. He, and he talked for, Senate Bill 293 when it was introduced. Michelle Reynolds did not.

[8:48] The other thing too is that Michelle Reynolds introduced a bill this session, this past session, that granted three extra days off school for religious observances. Introduced that to the Senate and spoke about it. And that was the one where I asked Gary Click if somebody was an atheist, if they could take off, observe Isaac Asimov’s birthday and take a day off. And he said, no, that it only applied to religious people, people who had a religious belief. You know, that’s religious privilege. The same with this, the release time religious instruction stuff is, it’s an end around to get prayer back into the school. And as I discussed in a previous episode, that one of LifeWise’s goals was to be integrated into the school, to be a special like art and music. And so the other person in the picture was Andrew Benner, who is the committee chair in the Senate, the Senate Education Committee.

[10:04] He also was in support of the bill, and he spoke about it when it was meshed together with House Bill 8, which is the so-called Parents Bill of Rights Act. After, you know, just the fact that these two bills, RTRI stuff and the Don’t Say Gay stuff were melled together, over 500 people had either appeared in person or had written testimony in opposition to both bills, a total of over 500 people, and they still passed it because they want to punish kids who are questioning their sexual orientation and their sexual identity.

[10:54] By forcing the school to tell the parents, hey, your kid is questioning their sexual identity. Because again, these religious zealots, they don’t know that it is part and parcel of somebody’s psyche. They just think that it’s like choosing an ice cream flavor or what clothes you’re going to wear to school. You know, they think that they’re, that the kids don’t know what they know. You know, I, I, I am not gay myself. I’m not LGBT, but I have a lot of LGBT friends and the story’s always the same. These, these people knew that they were different when they were in school, in elementary school. Many of them knew that they were different. Many of them, by the time they were in junior high, knew that they were LGBT.

[11:53] And the fact that these parents are going to know about it is not going to change the fact. Because what’s going to happen is the kids are going to hide it. And then that’s going to really affect their mental stability. And you’re probably going to have some kids committing suicide because of it. Because they’re not going to be safe anymore. You know, and here’s the thing, you know, if, if, if these parents that were supporting this bill really supported their kids, wanted to support their kids, they wouldn’t have supported this bill. But many of the people that I know that supported this bill are buttheads towards their kids. They’re, they’re trying to be all controlling and that’s never healthy. That’s never healthy.

[12:46] But, so those two, those two bills were mashed together and then they were passed. And then the governor signed them.

[12:57] You know, it’s, it’s too bad. It really is. And, and they were talking about this in the Toledo Blade, had an article about it. And some of the comments, they were like, oh good, now we can protect the women. And I said, well, protect them from what? And they said, protecting them from men pretending to be women. See, they don’t even understand trans people at all. They don’t understand it at all. And like I’ve said before, their initial, their whole thought process is that trans people are predators.

[13:34] You know, they don’t say anything about the clergy members that are abusing children. Uh, one of these people were taught about protecting women, uh, girls from men pretending to be women. I said, so did you want to protect, uh, those, uh, women’s reproductive rights or were you mad about that too? And all they came back with was, well, men can’t have babies, but that’s not what I was talking about because the same people that are trying to protect these girls or men that are pretending to be women are the first ones. Gary Click, in particular, didn’t want parents to have the right to have their kids have gender-affirming care and didn’t want women to have reproductive choice. So what’s he protecting women for, from?

[14:28] You know, it’s just his religious bigotry that is, is causing these laws to be passed. These laws that hurt a tiny sliver of people in this country.

[14:44] To discriminate it’s just somebody to discriminate against because it makes them feel better and like i said it’s it’s part intimidation they think that if they shame you and if they make the laws so that, that that you can’t get any support that you’ll give it up because they think it’s just a choice that you made they don’t know that it’s intrinsic into into your whole body from your mind down to your toes. And so it’s just very disheartening that, that this, uh, don’t say gay bill passed in Ohio and the RTRI stuff passed as well. But I can tell you that, uh, the people that I worked with on the RTRI project, uh, we are starting to formulate a model policy for schools to adopt because even though they’re forcing, uh, schools to adopt a policy, they are still leaving it up to the school districts. Representative Josh Williams here in the Toledo area actually threatened the school districts that if they made it too hard for LifeWise to operate, they were going to come back into the statehouse and pass another law. And he said, F around and find out. Yeah, real professional, real professional.

[16:07] And then, of course, that’s on top of the 900 million dollars that is going to religious private schools from this universal vouchers that we have in Ohio now. 900 million. And Matt Huffman, who is now the Speaker of the House, he used to be in the Senate, now he’s in the House because that’s what they do is they trade jobs. He wants to cut public school funding even more.

[16:40] After giving religious private schools $900 million. So it’s, yeah, it’s a bit disheartening, to say the least. And so that’s the update on that. And like I said, you know, we’ll keep people informed about the model policies when we work, introduce them and, and try to figure out how you can take care of that with your own school district. And, and hopefully it won’t be, it won’t be as, cause as much damage as it appears on the surface. For more information about any of the topics covered in this episode, check out our show notes at secularleft.us.

[17:30] Music.

[17:36] The other item that I want to talk about today in this episode is came across here this past week that a federal judge vacated a new Title IX rule that was supposed to protect LGBT students nationwide. And it’s just amazing that a federal judge in Kentucky can stop a rule that was going to protect LGBT students around the country. And so this was originally published in an Ohio Capital Journal. It says a federal district judge in Kentucky has struck down President Joe Biden’s effort to protect transgender students and make other changes to Title IX, ruling the U.S. Department of Education violated teachers’ rights. By requiring them to use transgender students’ names and pronouns.

[18:35] Yeah, so that’s why they trashed the entire effort, the expansion, was because it would force teachers to use the pronouns of the students, their names and pronouns that they want them to use. The ruling issued Thursday, this was January the 9th, which applies nationwide, came as a major blow, comes less than two weeks before President-elect Donald Trump takes office, blah, blah, blah. In his opinion, Chief Judge Danny Reeves of the Eastern District of Kentucky wrote in his opinion that the Education Department could not expand Title IX to prohibit discrimination based on gender identity. Reeves was nominated to the bench by President George W. Bush. Gender identity refers to the gender that an individual identifies as, regardless of their sex assigned at birth. The entire point of Title IX is to prevent discrimination based on sex. Throwing gender identity into the mix eviscerates the statue and renders it largely meaningless.

[19:45] I have no idea how he came to that conclusion. Now, what was interesting about this case is that a group of Republican attorney generals officials sued the Biden administration, and I believe our Ohio AG, David Yost, also joined in on this.

[20:07] And it says, while Reeves’ opinion references a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision that limits the regulatory authority of federal agencies, it also notably rejects the rule on First Amendment grounds. The First Amendment does not permit the government to chill speech or compel affirmations of belief with which the speaker disagrees in this manner, Reeves said, referring to sections of the law that could be interpreted as defining deadnaming and misgendering of students as harassment. Deadnaming is when someone uses a transgender or non-binary person’s birth name or deadname against their wishes. Misgendering occurs when someone refers to an individual by gender they do not identify as. Well, if you constantly do it and you do it on purpose, it is harassment.

[20:58] You know, kind of what it reminds me of, um, I don’t know if, uh, people out there remember the TV show Scrubs with, uh, Zach Braff and, uh, um, some other people in it. It was a sitcom. The one, uh, head doctor who was in charge, Dr. Cox would call Zach Braff’s, uh, characters, a woman’s name, almost every episode. Like he’d call them, hey, Sally, come here. Here, Claire, do this, do that. Now, he would, if that was in real life, if that was something that was a real situation, a real workplace situation, that doctor would have cause to complain to human resources. Because the intent is to demean the person when you call them names like that, especially if they ask you not to.

[22:05] And, you know, I get the argument about the First Amendment because there are a lot of racist people like Elon Musk and some other people like Mark Zuckerberg who want to be able to use the N-word whenever they want. And so anytime that they’re not able to do that, then they cry about censorship. The same with these people that are targeting trans people. Simply because they don’t agree with it, they think that it’s violating their First Amendment right, that they just treat this person with basic dignity and worth and use the name that they want to be known by. Uh, there was, uh, somebody that had a, a meme on the internet, uh, the other day. Um, if you know the story about, uh, uh, Trump wanting to rename the Gulf of Mexico, the Gulf of America, well, somebody had put up a meme that, you know, if we can call a body of water by a different name, then people can use pronouns and names of people that based on what they want. So if somebody is making a transition from Julie to Jake…

[23:28] Then people should abide by that. And I don’t understand. I don’t understand why that is such a problem. You know, I think I’ve mentioned before in previous topics talking about this particular topic that we call people by the names that they wish to go by all the time. Just the other day, I interviewed Fish Stark, the executive director of the American Humanist Association. And would it surprise you to know that Fish is not his given name? It’s not. It’s a nickname that he got when he started. He actually chose that name himself and had people start calling him Fish, and people did it. The same with people that are named William or James, and they go by Billy or Jimmy. You know, and then people will make the argument, well, they’re still men. Well, that’s not the point. The point is we do this all the time. There’s people, women, who go, their given name is Mary, but they might go by Peg or Peggy.

[24:48] See how that works? We do it all the time. We call people by the names that they want to go by. So why is it such an issue? Why do they have to sue and go to federal court just so that they don’t have to do it? Why? The First Amendment doesn’t protect you when you’re trying to hurt somebody.

[25:18] See, and that’s what this judge did not consider. The judge did not consider the actions of the people. They’re not saying that you can never call somebody by their dead name or misgender them. They were just saying that if you continue to do it after they’ve asked you not to, then it’s considered harassment.

[25:39] You know, just like it would be harassment if you’re walking down the street and somebody calls you an asshole constantly. That’s harassment. They’re trying to hurt you. When these Neanderthals do this and say your dead name or misgenderize you, they’re trying to intimidate you and they’re trying to hurt you. So why does the First Amendment apply? It shouldn’t. But again, this is the religious bigots that we have to deal with in this country, that they just make it up as they go along, because it’s just a small fraction of the population, and they think that they have no power. And I’m not putting up with it anymore, starting now. Uh, some of the things that, uh, I am planning on doing, especially with my group is we’re probably going to withdraw from Facebook. Uh, what we, I already withdrew the group from Twitter and it’s called Twitter. It’s not X. I’m calling it Twitter. See how that works.

[26:52] And I am just not going to support these bigots anymore. Just not. They will not have a platform from me. I will not be giving them any money or supporting them in any way. Because it’s time that we stop doing this. It’s time that we stop hurting trans people.

[27:19] It’s time for people to do something about it, Because it’s not a difference of opinion, It’s these people who will not Treat trans people with basic dignity and worth, And as Americans we should be ashamed of that, Because that is not how this country is supposed to be. If you would like to buy some Secular Left swag to show your support and to express your politics, then check out our merch store. We have branded items for sale, such as t-shirts, hats, mugs, and many other unique items. Check it out at secularleft.us. slash shop.

[28:11] I just wanted to briefly mention this one issue that came up. I think it was around New Year’s. It was after Christmas, maybe around Christmas, New Year’s. The Freedom From Religion Foundation has a blog. They still publish stuff on their website, essays and things like that, uh, that expresses their values. And some weeks ago they had one of their interns who wrote an excellent essay and I’ll have the link to it in the, if I, if it’s still up, it should still be up. I’ll have a link to it. Um, basically what it does is it talks about the religious underpinnings of the attacks on trans people and LGBT people and how that’s related to church and state separation.

[29:10] And, uh, there’s a lot that I found out that there’s a lot of FFRF, FFRF supporters who don’t think that attacks on gender identity have anything to do with separation of church and state. They’re wrong.

[29:29] Anyway, so they, they, you know, uh, published this excellent essay and didn’t really get, It, you know, there wasn’t a lot of people that read it. It didn’t go viral or anything like that. The response to it got, went viral. This biology professor, who’s a so-called biology professor, Jerry Coyne, wrote a rebuttal. Jerry Coyne is, or was at the time, a member, an honorary member of the board of FFRF. So basically they use him to raise money and publicize because he’s a name in the scientific community. It’s not a good name. I’ve not liked the guy for a long time just because he’s like one of those guys that you’re like, why is he a free thinker? You know, being a free thinker doesn’t mean hurting people. You know, anyway, so he wrote a rebuttal and it was the nastiest piece of transphobia I’ve read in a long time.

[30:41] And it caused a kerfuffle in social media. And people were rightly offended by it. Just to give you some ideas, Hemant Mehta did an excellent detailed article about this. So I’m not going to reinvent the wheel. I’ll put a link to his article about it. But basically, one of the big things was that he claimed, Dr. Coyne claimed that trans people were more likely to be sexual predators. Well, how did he come up with that? Well, he cited a now debunked study in the UK that tried to show that most sexual predators in prison were trans people. And it was cherry-picked data. For a scientist, a biology scientist who should know better, you don’t cite a study that is suspect. That’s just one of the things that he did. He also said that trans women should not be counselors for other women.

[31:57] Stuff like that. Just very transphobic. And it caused a shitstorm. A big shit storm.

[32:06] And it was about the next day after they had published COIN’s rebuttal that FFRF removed his essay, put out a statement by the leadership of FFRF that that essay, it was wrong to publish it and they were sorry and they, they took it down. Even though when it was published, it said that the views in this essay do not fit the views of FFRF, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, basically what it was, what they got caught in, and according to Coyne’s recollection, they knew what was the content, and they had him, he claims that they even had him tone some of it down from the original version, and they still published it. And I know why they did it, because there’s a side of the free thought community that thinks that more speech is good speech, you know, without evaluating what’s true and what’s not true and what can be hurtful and what isn’t, all right? Because like I said, trans people, whether or not you’re trans, that’s not like choosing an ice cream flavor. It’s not debatable.

[33:29] Whether or not somebody has basic dignity and worth should not be debatable. It’s not debatable.

[33:36] So there’s no reason to go all academic about it. Like, here’s one side, here’s the other. You choose. No. There are some viewpoints, like coins, that do not deserve to be heard. Now, if he wants to go and publish it, which he found a publisher, obviously. He found another group to publish it. I think it was the Atheists for Liberty or some bullshit like that.

[34:06] If he wants to publish it, fine, all right? But FFRF is supposed to have a certain set of values, and they messed up big time. A little disappointed in them that it happened. I’m glad that they took it down and that they fessed up to it. You know, they didn’t try to say, hey, some intern did it or how some of those groups do things like that. But it’s going to cause some problems. Well, one of the things was that, uh, Jerry Coyne, Steven Pinker, another guy I don’t like, and Richard Dawkins, who I definitely don’t like, resigned as honorary board members of FFRF in, in, uh, protest of being censored. They weren’t being censored because they say this crap all the time. They say this transphobic crap all the time in public. And they don’t lose their jobs. They should, but they don’t lose their jobs. They don’t get, there isn’t any negative consequences for their transphobia.

[35:17] And I think there should be. And if, and, and now that they resigned from being on the honorary board, that’s more power to the FFRF because, you know, a lot of times you have to get, get rid of the dregs that are weighing you down. And I, I really do. Um, I made the comment when this issue came up a couple of weeks ago that I attended a FFRF convention, um, 2018, I think it was 2018 or 2017. in Madison, Wisconsin. And Steven Pinker, who again, I said, I don’t support, I don’t like him. He hangs out with, or hung out with that pedophile guy, the rich pedophile guy that died in prison. Forget his name. Good. But Pinker was on the list to speak. And that was when I took the opportunity to go back to the hotel. I skipped it.

[36:20] I didn’t want to hear him, but you know, that’s the privilege that these, these buffoons get, you know, and, and I think more people in the free thought community should be more discerning about who they support and who they don’t. I really do. Whether or not you agree with transgender people or not. It’s not up to you. It’s not up to you. If you agree, it’s not academic. It shouldn’t be debated.

[36:53] And so I’ll throw those links to that whole issue and you can check it out yourself this.

[37:01] Music.

[37:07] Well, the political scene wasn’t entirely negative for transgender people in the state of Ohio. One of the people who was a trans person who had run for a state house, ran for the state house in November and eventually lost, was recently appointed to the city council for the city of St. Mary’s, which is in Auglaise County. Which is about 40, 50, 60 miles south of Toledo. It says, a small Ohio town in Auglaise County near Indiana will soon have its first out transgender council member, and she is thought to be the first trans council person ever in the entire state.

[38:00] Arienne Childry will join the City Council of St. Mary’s, taking the seat of Councilwoman Robin Willoughby, who stepped down at the end of last year due to health concerns. Childry was voted in by the Auglaise County Democratic Party Central Committee on Monday, January the 6th, to fill the seat. Her swearing-in will take place after the Ohio Secretary of State certifies her appointment. And I think that’s great that she was appointed to the city council. I did personally, as a civilian person, I did support her candidacy in November, because she’s a secular humanist and an atheist.

[38:43] And she was running against Angie King, who is from Celina, which is nearby. And Angie King, I think I mentioned before, she is the one that introduced a bill to ban drag queen, drag shows in public. And she’s the one that literally was in tears talking about how her children had to see drag queens in a city park in Salina. And that’s why she was supporting the bill. Luckily, the bill didn’t go. It did die. It didn’t go anywhere. But Representative King is still a butthead when it comes to trans people, because she also introduced a bill in May of 2024 to expand who can challenge the eligibility of candidates, including eligibility based on failure to list prior names. And luckily for, um.

[39:51] Arienne, uh, I, I’m mispronouncing. I apologize. Uh, uh, Childry that that bill also didn’t go anywhere. And, uh, what happened was that, uh, There was a law, a decades-old law in the books here in Ohio, that forces candidates to list any former legal names in the past five years, even though election paperwork did not provide a space to list those names. And so, uh, uh, uh, children, children, and another, um, candidate in the Eastern, um, part of the state were challenged because they were trans people and they didn’t list their dead names on, on the form on the, the past, if it was in the past five years. It says, The law was used repeatedly in 2024 to target trans candidates in Ohio as it effectively forces them out themselves. While the Mercer County Board of Elections deemed Childery eligible to run, the Stark County Board of Elections disqualified candidate Vanessa Joy under the same law.

[41:06] So it was actually very good that Arienne Childery was appointed to the city council. Thank you. And then also in this article, and this is an article from the Buckeye Flame, talks about Dion Manley is the only other out trans official in the state. In 2022, he was sworn in as the newest board member of Gahanna Jefferson City School District.

[41:38] And so a lot of times, you know, if you’re going to fight for your civil rights, you know, you have to be able to do some of the work yourself as well, such as running for office. I say that about atheists and humanists and other non-religious people that, you know, if you want to break the backs of the religious zealots, you have to get elected to office in order to dilute their numbers. And it can start with city council, it can start with a school board. You know, you’re not going to run for president if you’ve never had any political experience because it’s very expensive. But, you know, that is some, you know, ways of trying to change how things are going in this country is by getting involved, getting elected to office, running, supporting people that you want to see in office. And you’ve got to start locally and get involved locally at the local level and at the state level, because those are where the major changes are going to be able to happen. And then they all kind of ripple down into the like Congress and places like that.

[43:03] So I’m glad I’m able to end this episode on a positive note. And I really appreciate what the city of St. Mary’s is doing. And I hope it works out for the best.

[43:19] Thank you for listening to this episode. You can check out more information, including links to sources used, in our show notes on our website at secularleft.us. Secular Left is hosted, written, and produced by Doug Berger, and he is solely responsible for the content. Send us your comments, either using the contact form on the website, or by sending us a note at comments at secularleft.us. Our theme music is Dank and Nasty, composed using Amplify Studio.

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